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Permalink Reply by The Giant Killah 187 on May 28, 2012 at 0:07

Lol

I can see alot of 2 shot players biting at this one

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Permalink Reply by joseph ratcliffe on May 28, 2012 at 2:32

i see your point of view  and being a very attacking player it some times annoys me when people just run and hide from the start but these days the pockets are bigger than ever and it suits the attacking players . all the big 2 shot comps you go to you will see players clearing frame after frame and not even look like playing negative unless they have to. 2 shot is the only game other than snooker that i have ever played apart from having a hit on the 9 footers at some 2 shot comps for a hour or so  its hard for me to compare games but in my point of view its the best game because it has the attacking side and the strategic side its not as easy as  you 9 foot players think there is alot of balls in a small area but every one has there opinion on this topic but i love the two shot game and everything that comes with it :) but i hope i get to play on the 9 footers one day properly im sure i would love the game to  

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Permalink Reply by Grant Meadley on May 28, 2012 at 9:34

Just for the record again I personally dont play any form of pool. I play billiards the best cue sport on earth ;)

 

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Permalink Reply by Travis Crawley on May 28, 2012 at 10:22

Hi Grant,
Thanks for the compliment on our event.
A lot of time, money & effort went into it and were very pleased with result.
I seem to remember a certain somebody giving me the tip about the venue a few years ago!! ;)
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As for the game you mentioned between SA & Victoria...
Im sure you will agree, that playing in a team frame has a much different pressure than playing a singles frame.
Also, a Victoria -v- South Australia team match has lots and lots of angst. There is so much history between these two states and losing is not an option for either of them.
For so many years, SA was very dominant... and Victoria was on the end of many grand final losses... so now the tables have turned and Victoria are starting to stick it back to them.
I guess it would be hard for an outsider to appreciate the hidden drama that goes on and the different pressures that the players are under... 
Players are trying very hard to win for their team and produce good personal results.
An Australian team is selected to go to England to play in the world championships based on personal stats.
One frame of pool in a team environment (at nationals level) can swing a match and can make or break your own championships. Momentum is a very funny thing.
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Players that attend these championships can't wait to play again and again. They are brilliant!!!
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And the best thing is... IT'S NOT HANDICAPPED.

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Permalink Reply by HuyBear Le on May 28, 2012 at 10:29

nyeh. lol this is how i see it, its a more complex game. but also more rewarding. it feels good to break and run 2 or 3 times in a row. playing american, if you dont do it to or 3 times in a row, it frustrates you because youve probably missed an easy shot, or over rolled the ball 2 feet (surprisingly easy to do). each has its own strategy game, id say its probably harder to play strategy in american because the safety game is not that obvious. where as on an english table, its easy to kill the black, cover a pocket, kill the oponents ball, very basic stuff. its learning to bend the rules to your favour. im very unbiased in this topic because i emjoy playing both american and english. i like that american pool encourages potting, but some tables are ridiculous. especially the chinese ones. i mean, you could be headless and pot balls on those. no game is easier at when it comes to being good at it, you still need a lot of practise, determination and skill. i think the english pool is a bit negative at times, but to be honest, its only when you really have to win. otherwise, at high levels, its very much potout galore. i play very often with ben nunan, steve tran, and peter butterworth so i see a combination of games being played. butters is always attacking, trannys always safe and ben has an elitist level game that does both. and youll realise, even in american tables, you NEED both aspects of the game, whether you see it often or not. its sort of how like in 9 ball, sure a lot of players claim they can run a lot of racks BUT i really believe its a strong safety game in 9ball that gets you over the line. not 'better' potting. i mean, these guys potting is about as good as it gets already, but being able to kick a ball safe and control the white, is a very hard thing to learn. or Jump a ball to safety. watch some of efren reyes old games, the man is a genius safety player. thats my 2c. probly not worth 2. might have to sell my kids.. hmmm

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Permalink Reply by Grant Meadley on May 28, 2012 at 21:07

Yes that was a fantastic venue Travis. The guy who gave you that tip is a great guy ;)

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Permalink Reply by Jamie Stevens on May 29, 2012 at 12:49

Haha you probably watched my frame where I snookered about 437 times in one frame.

Travis is spot on though.  Team pool especially Vic vs SA introduces a completely different type of pressure.  It's 1 frame pool and you're playing not only for yourself but your team as well.  In reality, ones intentions should be to always go out and play your natural game, take on your shots and try to win the game but quite often under pressure the subconscious takes over and you find yourself playing a higher percentage safety shot (or even a shot to nothing that doesn't offer as nicer position) to stay in the frame rather that take on that risky pot that will cost you the frame for sure if you miss.

The 2 games have the an extremely different set of tactics, have different pocket cuts, different cloth and different sized tables. The 2 games simply can't be compared as to which is better than the other.  Both games have their place and the american game promotes a much faster game and there is nothing at all wrong with that. That's why that gayest rule ever seen in cuesports exists where you can pot your ball and pot your opponents ball in the same shot and keep shooting.  A foul is a foul but implementing this rule makes the game much faster overall and is the pure reason for it's existence.

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Permalink Reply by Adrian Lawson on July 30, 2012 at 14:32

Grant, I agree with ya mate.

I have played all forms of the game. Originating in Sydney, I played in the old Armada teams comp which was an American, "international" rules competition, and have played snooker all through adult life, (the best game in my opinion) and Billiards, + 9ball etc and yes, this blackball, two shot, "world" rules pool. AND, mate, you're spot on. World Rules AKA, two shot, has often a negative tilt, there are exceptions, of course, players like Nunan for example, he is a great attacking and versatile cuest of any version of the game, he'll go for the shots when they're there, but he has the undeniable skill... (He is an example, there are of course others) And safetly is paramount in all forms of cue sports; one must master it to reach the highest levels. Still, on the main, the game of two shot pool appeals to players of lesser standards who can weasel a win by rolling balls around, towards pockets, playing for two. The main reason, or most common, for playing for two is that you can't, or don't think you can, take control of or win the frame with one. Now I know people will retort with vitriol but it can't be denied. Anybody with eyes can see it for themselves. I watched a two frame match of premier division 8ball last week (in Melbourne) that went for 55 minutes. One player was simply refusing to take on the game and he was using 55 of the allotted 60 seconds to decide on each of his gentle taps, all this regardless of the fact that he had multiple options to make the out or at least attack the frame. Strategy they call it. Well, clearly by definition it is, but it is also acutely negative and bloody boring, and pretty much against the IDEA of the GAME, which is to pot little plastic polymer balls into pockets. Righto, people have a right to play how they want and within the rules in order to win the frame. But put it this way, Two Shot pool is the only cue sport that gives you the liberty of missing. It is the only cue sport that does so. (Please nobody don't start saying a losing hazard in billiard is akin to a miss, it clearly isn't, when completing a losing hazard, elsewise known as potting the cue-ball off the object-ball or your opponents cue-ball, you have completed a shot, you only get one go at it, if you fail to make the hazard you don't get another go!)

Pool needs a penalty, one shot no penalty pool is the worse front bar bastards game in existence. But there is nothing more dreary than watching players, and as you say Grant, decent players who "can" pot balls, play for two as their first option.

I hate seeing a player miss the black for example, only to lay it up and have another go. Wish I could do that in snooker hey?  49... ops, clank... "second visit"... 56... Ball in hand is the best foul. At least then you do not have the option of missing. 

As for this revelry between states, the desire to win etc, WHAT a weasel answer. Clive Loyd's West Indies desired desperately to beat Chappell's Australia in the cricket years back, they didn't do it with negativity, they re-invented cricket with fire and passion and creativity: i.e. positivity! Bollocks argument. Stale pool is stale pool, regardless of pressures and passions and desire to win...

Last thing I'll say is this, if S. Budd doesn't mind me quoting him, a few years back I was talking to him during the Fred Osbourne and he said, regarding two shot pool: 'well, you've got to wonder about the mentality of that game.'

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Permalink Reply by Cueballs on July 30, 2012 at 16:02

A good example of an excellent 2shot match - this is why we love the game !

watch

The Nationals is not a good example because everyone playing are mainly just trying not to lose.

Although the finals were awesome !

watch

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Permalink Reply by Adrian Lawson on July 30, 2012 at 18:08

Don't get me wrong. I love the game too, two shot is my least favorite though. A snooker snob I may be. That aside, there's no doubt great matches are played in two shot pool, i've both seen and played in a few myself.

And if you look at the likes of former players that have come out of Victoria and the standard of some of the current top guys, in the past there was Q. Hann, J. Younger, Rogers, Foldvari onto Nunan and Neil Robertson... It's obvious there's the potential for great matches. I play two shot every Tuesday in the MMPL against people like Nunan and Tran and Brewer and Butterworth etc. There is some great frames. Sure.

And you'd be naive of the game to say safety play isn't paramount. When played well and aggressively it's fascinating in itself, and showcases a beautiful subtly of the game: a important discipline. But in the main the English version of pool promotes a negative approach for many participants and that negativity is a reason a lot of people prefer the rules. When players choose a negative safety approach as their first method of play the game suffers and the rules encourage it for many.  Try playing a top player/pro at American pool and you'll see quick smart why Two Shot pool appeals. 

Cheers.

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Permalink Reply by Cueballs on July 31, 2012 at 18:29

I agree !

My favourite rules are 10ball - no safety - for the reasons you just mentioned.

watch

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Permalink Reply by William Kent on August 11, 2012 at 14:40

2-shot may seem negative to break makers, but it gives weaker players a chance to compete. Without the numbers you won't have tournaments. So if you don't like it, don't play it.

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